May 14, 2011 - Interactive Chatlog for CSCL-Intro Meeting 3 from Piratepad

Hey, #CSCLintro: I whipped up a quick interactive chatlog, color-coded by participant and tagged by subject per post. You can use it to track a single subject through the chat or even the union of multiple subjects. I think it's best to zoom your browser all the way out and look at the big picture to get a sense of how individuals moved in and out of prominence depending on subject, and how the subjects ebbed and flowed. The "persistent community" topic toward the end had amazing traction compared to the others; conversation was hardly interrupted there for a long time.

Some posts are tagged with more than one subject, but you have to turn off the original button you triggered them with. JavaScript by Shawn Olson My adaptation of the script isn't perfect or even elegant, but it's worth playing with. Surprisingly, it was easier to create an interactive chatlog than a static graphic, but that would be the next step. I have a cool idea for how all the tags can be visualized at once.

Monica: hello...?
Jennifer: hello
Jennifer: monica?
Jennifer: nate?
Monica: hi! i made it... wasn't sure I was going to be able
Jennifer: are you guys here?
Jennifer: hi!
Jennifer: monica, great comment on my blog
Monica: no problem! I just got your response... i'm really liking this paper
Monica: at least to help my clarify my own thoughts
Jennifer: i think i will LOVE it
Nate: Hello!
Jennifer: thanks so much
Monica: and I"m excited someone else is into the kinds of things I'm into as well
Jennifer: me too!
Monica: nate! good to see u
Jennifer: we have a lot in common :)
Jennifer: hi nate!
Jennifer: how's it going?
Nate: Thanks! It's going well: just got back from librarian prom in portland
Nate: for my fiance's library science program.
Jennifer: prom?
Jennifer: as in dance?
Nate: Yep, prom for adults.
Nate: It was funny and fun.
Jennifer: cool, never heard of that
Jennifer: congrats on getting engaged
Nate: Oh, thanks btw.
Monica: aack i keep getting booted
Monica: yes congrats;)
Jennifer: it happened to me last time
Jennifer: when's the wedding?
Nate: Jennifer, I tried to leave a comment on your Piaget blog post, but I must have screwed it up somewhere because it never showed up..
Jennifer: oh man!
Nate: Maybe I'll retype the important bits later
Jennifer: what a drag
Nate: Um, aug 13
Jennifer: do you have a copy>
Jennifer: did you save it?
Jennifer: ah summer wedding
Jennifer: awesome
Nate: Yeah, second time that happened this course... once on Martin's blogger platform from my phone so it was double annoying because it took so long to type. No, I don't have a copy--- it was late at night and I hit send and closed the laptop and went to bed.
Monica: that happened to me on Martin's blog too
Jennifer: that happened to me on Martin's blog too!
Jennifer: so now I always save every post I write
Jennifer: then copy and paste
Nate: Some weird bug with logging into the google account to post. I'll maybe just do it as name/email next time
Nate: That's smart to do.
Monica: uh oh we better ask him about that! i wonder why it keeps happening? ya..
Monica: good idea
Jennifer: oh I have a question about badges
Jennifer: when do we do them?
Nate: It's not his fault--it's google's... some weird cookie related bug
Jennifer: do we choose our own topic?
Jennifer: or is it designated by the course?
Nate: brb
Monica: ya - i don't know! we had the possibilities for them, and we have to contact Erin from P2P to set it up
Jennifer: oh so it's not in place yet
Jennifer: I'm just getting a little worried about time
Monica: that's why i wanted to talk more about what kinds of badges people thought would be useful... no, not yet
Monica: I know me too
Jennifer: I have a presentation in 3 weeks
Jennifer: on a paper I haven't written yet
Jennifer: also we want to make a group OER
Monica: its been a bit rough, Stian has been out of the picture b/c of an eye infection and I honstely don't know much about the new P2P platform - including how to get badges going
Jennifer: I am barely keeping up with readings
Monica: i know...
Monica: me too
Jennifer: oh it's because of his eye that he is out?
Monica: i was wondering whether badges are even something we want/need to do
Monica: ya, he coudln't really use a computer
Jennifer: that must be aweful for him
Jennifer: he is on it 24 hors a day
Monica: and he's been travelling all over... he just contacted me yesterday and said he's finally in a village with consistent internet access
Jennifer: he's in china?
Monica: yes, for the rest of the summer
Jennifer: Mnica are you going to the CSCL conference in hong kong?
Jennifer: oops Monica
Monica: i am! are you?
Jennifer: YES!
Monica: yay!
Jennifer: Yay!
Nate: ok, back: catching up
Jennifer: LOL
Monica: lol that's awesome
Jennifer: I think we'll have a lot to talk about
Monica: it'll be nice to have a face to face chat!! yes definitely!
Jennifer: tell me where you are staying
Monica: welcome back!
Jennifer: once you have chosen a place
Jennifer: so we can hang out and chat after hours
Jennifer: I haven't looked for a hotel yet
Monica: for sure! we'll be deciding soon, so i'll let you know!
Jennifer: cool :)
Jennifer: hi marcy
Monica: hi marcy
Marcy: Hey, guys! Just dropped a friend off at Logan...
Jennifer: should we discuss badges and whether or not we want to do them?
Nate: Nice on you two both going to the conference; too bad about Stian's eye and relative unavailability, we'll have to make some progress on badges indeed; maybe reduce the number to two or something?
Jennifer: I wonder if it might be better to focus our energies on the OER
Nate: Hi, Marcy
Jennifer: or no badges
Jennifer: just make posts on our blogs
Monica: that's what I was wondering - what do people prefer? where do you want to put your energy?
Jennifer: if someone has to set something us for us to do them it might be more bother than it's worth
Nate: If we decide this meeting is officially started, I have comments on the OER and on Stahl
Nate: oh, well then!
Marcy: Hi, Nate.
Jennifer: go for it nate
Marcy: I thought, during the week, the coolest thing was the suggestion to build the capacity of P2PU
Nate: On the OER, Martin gave me an idea that might be useful: we could create infographics to enhance and explain a couple important elements of CSCL
Jennifer: infographics?
Marcy: Very cool!
Nate: and maybe instead of building our own wiki entirely, we could just adapt or edit the CSCL page on Edtech wiki
Marcy: Interactive infographics?
Nate: Well, Martin was complaining the reading had hardly any images or anything besides giant blocks of text
Nate: and since it's a fairly new field, people haven't explored how to describe these concepts other than in an academic, dry manner
Jennifer: sorry what reading?
Jennifer: our course readings?
Nate: Oh, just the giant Stahl book, etc.
Nate: Yeah
Marcy: Good idea.
Jennifer: okay I don't know anything about infographics
Nate: I think interactive might be too hard, but a series of diagrams could be useful additions to a wiki summarizing CSCL
Nate: It's just a term for images that explain information
Jennifer: okay so graphics
Jennifer: got it
Nate: so a map is an infographic of one kind, for example, then if you layer some other information on top of a map, it's more useful,etc.
Jennifer: gotcha
Jennifer: thanks
Jennifer: but I have no experience in this whatsoever
Jennifer: never made my own graphic
Monica: how were you thinking we could make the diagrams? maybe you can explain some more...
Jennifer: except graphs
Jennifer: histograms
Jennifer: things lie that
Jennifer: like that
Nate: For example my friend Tim makes infographics about the NBA:
Jennifer: cool!
Nate: Well, it might work out. i haven't chosen topics specifically to address via infographic, but we could keep an eye out for them as we read next week's readings.
Monica: awesome... so we could basically use whatever we know how to use?
Jennifer: so basically infographics help to provide some info visually
Nate: yeah, easy enough. If you can do photoshop, do it... if you make a graph in excel, cool...
Jennifer: rather than just etxt
Jennifer: text
Nate: right
Nate: it works for some learners better
Nate: and creating them forces you to think about several items of data at once
Marcy: Very true--I often resort to drawing images when in the classroom
Nate: I'm just throwing out an idea here, not necessarily something everybody should focus all their time on, but I think it would make an interesting addition to the state of the art.
Jennifer: I worry that there is a bit of a learning curve here
Nate: For example, with the Stahl readings from this week (e.g. how to study group cognition)
Jennifer: first we have to master the info we are trying to explain to readers
Jennifer: then make graphics
Nate: you could just take some text snippets from a chat-log and point out where you see group cognition. you could probably make little icons or a pie chart at different points to show where the "common ground" had developed
Marcy: I'd like to go back to where we were last week, and the things that were uploaded during the week. alas, I've not had chance to review the readings, but did check out some books on communities of practice / cultivating professional learning communities at the Ed School
Nate: ok, Let's simmer on the infographic idea... just think about it a little and see if you have any ideas--- we don't have to force it to happen.
Jennifer: nate maybe we could have some people working on text and others on graphics
Jennifer: no I think it's a great idea
Marcy: And because we all share interest in the CoP idea, but supported by digital tech, perhaps we can address how to find common ground, along with what options exist that help / hinder the CoP process.
Jennifer: just that I am not capable of making any infographics
Marcy: Thats' why I really like the notion of using P2PU as a "guinea pig"
Jennifer: I'm not into CoP much
Jennifer: sorry Marcy
Jennifer: I think they are very cool
Jennifer: but not really my field
Marcy: That's okay: the point is to take what each is looking for, and see where the overlaps are.
Jennifer: which doesn't mean that you can't write about them!
Jennifer: yes right
Jennifer: maybe we can each write what we are interested in
Jennifer: try to tie it together
Jennifer: add some infographics
Jennifer: and get famous!
Nate: ...catching up to what's been said again...
Marcy: I'm less interested in writing about them; I write all teh time (had something published on the Guardian's website this week). I'm more interested in building something.
Marcy: Creating a learning environment.
Jennifer: post link to Guradian post please
Marcy: that's enabled with computer tech.
Marcy: Coitenly!
Nate: @Marcy: I am also interested in how this P2pu class performs as an example of cscl
Monica: would you be interested in using p2p as a platform, marcy?
Monica: Have you looked at Joe's "Shaping P2PU" course?
Monica: that actually might be really useful for you
Jennifer: me too I am interested in self-organizing systems
Jennifer: looks cool marcy
Jennifer: will read later
Marcy: No, I should, though. I've kept informed by Josh Gay, but think this is awfully cool. There are a number of groups out there that are seeking to monetize this space, with free software, but they're not educators...
Jennifer: no monetizing!!
Marcy: @Jennifer: thanks! :)
Marcy: I'm serious, it's beginning to bug me bigtime.
Jennifer: OER must be free
Jennifer: open ed must be free
Jennifer: we have to protect them
Nate: *a spontaneous thought*: I bet we could come up with an interesting visualization of the "flow" of a small group chat just by looking at the color bars in this window, and how they change as we shift through topics. in order to analyze the effectiveness of linear chat stream as CSCL platform (ties in with Stahl's research in wk3 readings)
Marcy: Big time. That is, groups seeking to "engage stakeholders" but end up having a captive audience that corporations can use as focus groups.
Marcy: Corps pay for this. Bothers me.
Monica: Nate, I think it would be really great if you did just that
Marcy: @Nate: it's true, there's a narrative here, color coded...
Jennifer: this is like dialogue analysis
Monica: like, as an example of what you mean both by 'infographics" and by using an exercise to relfect on teh readings
Jennifer: I did something like that in linguistics
Jennifer: looking at text written by each participant
Jennifer: how it relates to the overall structure
Nate: Marcy: You may have seen Jim Groom's dear john letter to edupunk
Jennifer: bu that was a long time ago
Nate: *and BAM that annoying green bar comes in to completely shift the linear chat thread topic*
Jennifer: edupunk message looks cool
Jennifer: LOL
Monica: lol
Nate: ^^ something that applies to linear chat, though not threaded collaborative text platforms
Jennifer: ok nate so please summarize your idea
Marcy: @Nate: OMG--that's so true! Jeepers, gotta read that. I'm the only educator in the group (remember they don't like to use the term "learning" or "teaching"; use "stakeholder engagement" instead.
Marcy: I'm gonna do a blog on that at some point. This is a great reference. I mean, I'm so totally for free education, it's obsessive
Jennifer: oh I hate words like that
Jennifer: learning is much better
Jennifer: yay go Marcy!
Nate: Ok, to summarize this spontaneous idea for a infographic that analyzes the effects of collaborating via a linear text stream like this chat window, we shrink down the color bars from this chat and label them with tags when the topic changes to see how "threads" weave in and out of a conversation and how participants filter in and out depending on teh topic (that they may have expertise in.)
Marcy: It's really weird, I'm telling you. It's as if they view the word "learning" as "weak". I've talked with some HGSE professors about that; it's part of the pecking order of status: Ed School below Business School, Law School, Kennedy School. Vocabularies are very different
Nate: Which is relevant to our readings beecause Stahl's math groups used a chatroom for collaboration, plus shared document space for images.
Jennifer: keep using words like learning and they will belong to us
Marcy: @Nate and you could see if there are correlations between the cognitive "map" that members use...
Jennifer: nate there is a structured way of doing this
Marcy: @Jennifer: believe me, I do. I talk about peer learning, knowledge creation, teaching... I feel duty bound :D
Nate: yes?
Jennifer: I am just worried that we are amateurs at this kind of analysis
Jennifer: `marcy awesome
Jennifer: sorry
Jennifer: maybe you guys know how to do this?
Nate: Well, it's a great exercise in studying group cognition to try to apply Stahl's text analysis technique to the sort of thing he did. This is how to study CSCL, he thinks. I think it would be fun to explore that theory. I will probably work something up to present at the next meeting, at risk of dragging the group cognition topic along for another week.
Nate: And, of course we are amateurs at it.... but it is what we're trying to learn here, essentially.
Jennifer: maybe that would help us to see what can be done
Jennifer: right now I'm a bit fuzzy on how to proceed
Monica: i think if you frame it as exploratory - ie i'm starting from an artifact
Nate: I don't know how deep we could get into, for example, locating where common ground develops, and the higher level functions of group cognition, but at least we could get a couple basic observations made about something.
Monica: holding it up against what i'm reading to help me better make sense of the ideas in the text
Nate: Ok, I'll do a quickie project of it, analyzing this chatlog to show you what I mean by infographic.
Jennifer: so this is original work
Jennifer: not wiki type stuff at all
Jennifer: cool nate
Jennifer: will look forward to seeing it
Jennifer: where will you post it?
Nate: my blog, and I'll link it in
Jennifer: great!
Jennifer: wow brand new topic
Nate: Yep, moving on, right?
Jennifer: where are we on the wiki idea?
Monica: Not far beyond simply suggesting we make a wiki
Nate: In the week 2 reading, we were assigned CSCL on the EdtechWiki: -- I'm fully for making a wiki contribution, but not necessarily for duplicating effort
Nate: Is tehre a way that we can incorporate OERs out there already and remix them/amend as a group project?
Monica: our initial intentions were to make adding or elaborating an aspect of that wiki an option
Jennifer: i can add something on constructivism
Jennifer: It's so limited
Jennifer: nothing on cognitive constructivism at all
Nate: Hmm, I got all kicked out again.
Monica: sorry i keep getting booted
Jennifer: me too!
Nate: ok, server problem, I'm sure.
Jennifer: just came back in now
Jennifer: lost 2 minutes
Jennifer: ok so we have nate's brave new idea
Jennifer: which is very cool
Jennifer: are we all going to work on that?
Jennifer: or still do something wiki-ish?
Marcy: Me, too, back again.
Monica: JOe also made that suggestion about contributing to the P2P course design handbook
Monica: i'm trying to find his actual comments but can't seem to locate them...
Nate: oh, it lost a comment I made: to rehash, "I don't want to cast my vision of how a wiki OER contribution could work, but I envisioned a sort of literature review /and rounding out of a wiki page to be what we collectively felt was the most essential things a newbie would need to know to "get up to speed" with what CSCL is about and the prominent theories in the field.
Jennifer: nate that sounds very cool
Jennifer: but like you said we don't want to do what has already been done
Jennifer: so do we write ourselves from screatch
Jennifer: or modify someone else's wiki?
Nate: by my "brave new idea", you mean my infographic? I think I'll just make the first one from this chatlog as a solo project to show what's possible in applying stahl's technique, but if anybody wants to work with me, I'd be glad to have help. The wiki is probably a better full-group collab effort.
Marcy: You guys crack me up. Are you all doctoral students?
Nate: well, what's the license on
Nate: we could probaby copy over what they have, or just add to it?
Jennifer: I think the brave new idea (BNI) is analyzing our chats in here
Marcy: You're all focusing on text, rather than other forms of media, which computer enabled technologies permit.
Monica: add to it... it's basically one guy that contributes
Monica: Stian would know more about that
Monica: he'll be back in teh loop very soon
Marcy: For example, amongst practitioner colleagues (who are Tweeting about this now), TED talks are the rave.
Nate: Well, I am best with text... only limited experience with public speaking or video production, etc.
Jennifer: practtioner colleagues = teachers?
Nate: so I was imagining I would want to work with text
Marcy: They like those because you can listen to them, but there's no contextualization, no connection to practice.
Jennifer: I am loving the animated videos
Jennifer: so much useful info
Monica: okay - so I have one question
Jennifer: inspiring sometimes
Jennifer: go monica
Monica: do you guys think badges are useful in this course, at this stage in teh game?
Marcy: YouTube stuff is all over the place, and Twitter now is heavily relied upon (I'm a big user) for trading info and keeping people informed. So, you have video, audio (podcasts), social media, IN ADDITION to our favorite longform narrative.
Nate: - says he's glad to take contributions, and wants to use "this place as a starting point for literature reviews" -- we could talk to him:
Jennifer: monica I am worried that we have limited time
Jennifer: and need to focus on an end product
Monica: I tend to agree
Nate: I think we should at least have one badge, the course-completion badge. I don't think we have to have it dependent on sub-badges
Jennifer: if we all agree that we want an end product
Jennifer: nate great idea
Marcy: Agreed.
Nate: applying for the badge is almost an afterthought if you have some blog posts (or distributed whatever) you can link to as evidence
Monica: okay great.
Marcy: One end product; some "badge"
Marcy: @Nate: Yup.
Monica: right, that's true...
Nate: a badge is the accreditation we get for the work we did, not the work itself, as I understand it. I want a little link to put on my website to a badge I "earned"
Monica: absolutely
Jennifer: external motivation
Jennifer: I don't need no stinking badges
Jennifer: :)
Monica: lol
Jennifer: that should be taken in context
Marcy: I'm thinking, being so inspired by all you guys are saying / writing (and the amazing readings)...
Jennifer: some cheech and chong movie i think
Jennifer: go marcy
Marcy: ...that my "endproduct" will be a Manifesto of some sort, for professional development in the sustainability ("Susty") space...
Nate: Also, I think the badges project is an interesting development in creating accreditation methods for open and free learning. We have to do it or who will? People are grasping at straws for how to accredit this kind of learning. People need to get out there and try things, even if they don't all work in the long run. ;)
Jennifer: a marcifesto
Jennifer: no nate you are right
Monica: yes Nate, I agree.. i think this course will be really useful to look at in terms of assessment /badges
Joe: hi
Marcy: @Nate: Can we consider a group manifesto, where we put out there principles for pracatice??
Monica: and marcy i think that's a great idea
Jennifer: many people will work for some kind of accreditation
Joe: i'm clearly late
Monica: hi joe!
Marcy: To combat the creeping commercialization of this area (I'm seeing it all over, maybe you guys aren't_
Joe: hi there
Monica: a little late, but better late than never!
Marcy: Hey, Joe!
Nate: @Marcy: I'd read/edit/contribute. Manifestos are short things usually. Sweet and to the point.
Monica: @Marcy: i'm struggling with phrasing everying with respect to devloping "21st century skills"
Jennifer: sorry marcy how are we going to beat the creeping commercialization of oer/open ed?
Monica: helping students "keep up" with a competitive "global economy"
Jennifer: this is a BIG question
Marcy: @Yes, but also rooted in theory and aimed at practice. In my world, which is dominated by things like "key performance indicators" and stuff (for measuring and managing corporate and investor performance), there's jackshit when it comes to learning and teaching...
Monica: i think you'll find ideas about transformative and embedded assessment useful here marcy
Nate: @Jennifer: #1 we prove that we can learn together without an institution, create something interesting, and accredit one another for it.
Jennifer: YES!
Jennifer: very cool
Nate: p2pu is an institution, of course, though not like what "they" think counts.
Jennifer: and this is totally interesting to me to because in some ways we are self-organzing
Marcy: I'm saying that there are groups that are setting up webinars, workshops, "stakeholder engagement" forums, and their backgrounds are almost solely in marketing and PR and communication---which is fine, but not when it comes to improving performance, deepening knowledge, becoming a reflective practitioner, as Don Schon, one of my professors, use to say.
Monica: actually the badge paper I posted up might be of interst to you, marcy (I haven't read it, but it directly addresses this issue of different notions of assessment)
Jennifer: in fact we are more and more self-organizing as time goes along
Marcy: For me, learning environments should be free and accessible, on a lifelong basis. How could we help people determine what's "good" and what's a "con"?
Jennifer: look at how Linux took over other OS
Jennifer: they are open software
Jennifer: yes marcy!
Jennifer: okay a mnifesto
Monica: @Marcy - I would also be totally into reading/possibly contributing to the manifesto
Jennifer: we believe in open ed for the following reasons
Marcy: So, if we are able to provide a model of self-organizing, high quality, pedagogically sound practice, that would be cool, wouldn't it?
Jennifer: cscl supports learning in these ways
Jennifer: yes!
Jennifer: very cool
Jennifer: yay a mission!
Nate: If we make the manifesto super short and sweet we could print it on our diplomas for the course that stian imagined
Jennifer: YES!!
Joe: so, the model is transferable to other P2PU courses?
Marcy: @Jennifer: yes, and how it could be relevant / useful to those in different professions / work situations who have to address transformations in their environment, calling them to learn more (LEARN MORE, not "engage more") when there's no "expert" or precedent.
Jennifer: other P2PU and other community learning sites possibily
Monica: actually joe I was trying to find the posting you put up about contributing to the discussion re: useful constraints
Marcy: A Manifesto / Code for CSCL...
Monica: for P2PU courses
Joe: @Monica: yeah, I don't know what it was, maybe in the 1st piratepad
Jennifer: cscl/oer/open ed
Marcy: this could be useful over time, as folks start putting out shingles, saying "Hire me, I'm a CSCL expert" and they're selling snake oil.
Jennifer: lol
Monica: can you elaborate on this a bit here? i didn't have time to read those documents in full
Jennifer: what documents
Monica: the Course design handbook
Monica: and there was another one - rr i'm so disorganized I can't find it
Jennifer: sorry I'm lost
Jennifer: what course design handbook?
Nate: p2pu course design handbook for course organizers
Joe: @Jennifer I can find a link for you
Jennifer: you are very organized!!!
Nate: Jennifer: It wasn't part of the readings specifically for this class or anything.
Jennifer: oh ok
Joe: but in general I think it would be good to move some of THIS conversation into the pad at left
Monica: u should my desktop- a disaster
Jennifer: thanks
Joe: to make an outline of the things we're talking about here
Jennifer: mine too @monica
Joe: per Nate's comment - then things won't get lost
Jennifer: :)
Jennifer: okay let's start the manifesto now!
Jennifer: joe do we need a new pirate pad for this?
Nate: I think suggested amendments to p2pu course design based on the theories we're learning in CSCL is something a little beyond the scope of this class, but it is a good idea/project that could be done someday.
Jennifer: main points only for tofay
Nate: just put points in the doc to the left.
Jennifer: @nate me too
Jennifer: okay
Joe: @Jennifer for simplicity let's use what's at left now
Marcy: Lovin' this... we're so rad (I can pull rank, I'm from that late 60s generation... )
Nate: Hehe, group writing exercise: each summarize in a couple sentences what this kind of open CSCL is about. go.
Jennifer: oh I am wiritn at the bootom
Jennifer: oops bottom
Marcy: Yes, this is really neat.
Joe: OK, I'll move stuff to bottom
Joe: or better yet... move stuff in middle away!
Jennifer: yay nate!
Monica: yikes, disconnecting all over the place
Jennifer: got booted again
Joe: seems to have stabilized now
Monica: Rebecca! welcome welcome
Marcy: Yeah, I think there are bugs in the system that boot us off
Rebecca: Hey guys. Sorry to be late!
Monica: no worries
Joe: @Marcy: sometmes it's a little touchy
Rebecca: So we are writing a CSCL group manifesto
Jennifer: OKAY
Rebecca: Cool!
Nate: Rebecca: Hi! as a summary, we have talked about out outputs for the course; i had an idea that we might be able to make infographics to better illustrate some CSCL principles that the authors we read only elaborated in extended blocks of text, and we're tryign to create a short manifesto that we could put on our diplomas to illustrate our intent to learn collaboratively outside of commercialized education structures.
Jennifer: nice start!
Jennifer: i was just kidding about the we will bring you down
Joe: I like the idea of each person leading for a "section" of this or somithng like that
Jennifer: well, not really
Nate: (how do you clear the authorship coor of an individual passage?
Joe: The button at the top
Joe: with a line through the tri-color rainbow
Nate: select, then hit it. Ok.. I didn't want to wipe out all the colors in the whole document or something.
Joe: select a section and then click that
Jennifer: monica?
Marcy: I hate the color I have
Jennifer: you still here?
Monica: I am!
Jennifer: hi rebecca!
Monica: i'm thinking...
Jennifer: sorry
Monica: lol
Joe: @Marcy: click the yellow box above then select a new color
Nate: Marcy, change your color @ the top right near your name
Rebecca: Hi Jennifer
Jennifer: just saw you in here
Joe: see, now i'm fucshia
Jennifer: so let's see everyone's contributions to the manifesto
Marcy: Cool!
Joe: oh, now I'm yellow :)
Marcy: Ratz--I'm still yellow...
Rebecca: Monica and Jenn, sorry, I've been reading the past history of this chat! So you are both going to be at the CSCL conference? Cool! Are you presenting on something there?
Joe: there you go
Marcy: There, maybe that works...
Jennifer: no just learning
Joe: nice choice
Marcy: :D
Jennifer: but hope to present in the future
Rebecca: Great! Yeah, me too.
Jennifer: are you going?
Rebecca: I mean I'm not going, but I hope to present in the future
Rebecca: Nope, not this time. :)
Jennifer: next time :)
Jennifer: it's great for me that it's in hong kong
Jennifer: close
Joe: I didn't even know there was a CSCL conference!
Jennifer: relatively speaking
Marcy: Me, neither. Who hosts it?
Jennifer: hey joe come to hongkong!
Rebecca: Yes, Joe it is every other year
Jennifer: early july right mon?
Monica: @joe:
Joe: cool
Marcy: @Joe: thanks for all the links; @Monica, you too, during the week.
Jennifer: oops is it okay to call you Mon?
Jennifer: or M?
Monica: yes, and it switches, (lol of course! Mon, m, whatever!)
Jennifer: Yes Monica has been doing an amazing job of organizing this course
Marcy: This is really cool (the conference)--I can learn a lot from this.
Monica: from CSCL to ICLS (international conference ofthe learning sciences)
Rebecca: So, sorry to be late, but catcch me up. Is our group OER a manifesto?
Jennifer: ICLS didn't know that one
Joe: @Rebecca: I was late too
Jennifer: when is it? where?
Joe: but I think that's the idea
Jennifer: link please :)
Nate: no, this is just something else. We think we're going to contribute to a wiki as literature review for CSCL
Jennifer: hmm for me the manifesto has become primary
Marcy: @Rebecca @Joe: I was on a rant about the commercialization of learning environments, and said I was gonna write something,
Monica: It switches, one ear CSCL, one year ICLS
Nate: ok??
Monica: the link is for ICLS 2010
Jennifer: oh ok
Jennifer: so it will be ICLS 2012
Monica: so, we were contributing to a group manifesto
Marcy: then it evolved quckly into a group idea for a manifesto, to estabish a beachhead for free, accessible, and quality peer learning
Jennifer: then CSCL 2013
Rebecca: is in Sydney 2012!
Jennifer: and now we are all very motivated and it's wonderful :)
Jennifer: oh Sydney!
Rebecca: I like the idea of a manifesto
Monica: but we were also thinking about various ways we can engage and reflect on the readings--Nate mentioned creating infographics that realte to the Stahl readings
Jennifer: same time zone as me (almost)
Rebecca: So infographics... is that like mind mapping?
Marcy: @Monica: maybe a takeaway assignment for next week, which harmonizes with the schedule, is to begin thinking of essential compoents for the manifesto
Rebecca: Yes, I think a blog prompt or assignment for every week based on the readings would be very helpful
Monica: could you provide an example of a essential component
Marcy: @Rebecca: yes, it's like planting the flag, and saying, Folks, we really care about this stuff and spend a lot of serious time on it, this is where we stand, and we think you should consider this.
Marcy: I've several audiences in mind, none of which like to use the vocabulary of educators
Rebecca: Interesting
Jennifer: `Rebecca this is all negotiable :)
Monica: @Rebecca - so, possible questions to explore like in WK1?
Marcy: Their problem. They consider education "soft"
Jennifer: we are just brainstorming now
Marcy: Yes, we're brainstorming...
Joe: I just want to point out that the And so...?????? section at the bottom is a place to put "actions"
Joe: I.e. based on the beliefs, what are we going to do?
Monica: i've been pondering that one
Nate: That's a good structure.
Rebecca: Yes @ Monica. The first week's questions were very helpful!! Even though I didn't blog about that one
Jennifer: I'm not keen on Millennium goals
Jennifer: top down
Jennifer: I do agree on access to everyone
Nate: Despite my natural tendency toward wordiness, I would like to try to keep this concise, but a two part structure is nice.
Jennifer: but can't we decide that for ourselves
Monica: @Rebecca - okay, this is good feedback. We'll keep doing that from here in.
Rebecca: Thank you! I need a little structure. :-) There could be choice like, create a mindmap or a debate graph that...
Jennifer: how much linking to outide hierarchies do we want?
Jennifer: oooh rebecca
Jennifer: that sounds great
Joe: I've noticed that the "Shaping P2PU" course hasn't gotten much involvement (yet) from P2PU folks, and I'd really appreciate it if someone here would volunteer to walk through it with me and give it an outside or inside critical assessment
Rebecca: Has anyone written a manifesto before?
Rebecca: What are the essential components?
Jennifer: eek joe I am so squeezed for time
Monica: I was thinking earlier today I was going to join that course joe
Jennifer: no chance of me taking on anything additional right now
Jennifer: sorry...
Joe: I just think it could be a useful sidelight on this course
Rebecca: Is our manifesto going to be about CSCL or more about open access online learning?
Joe: yeah, I'm just looking for ONE volunteer
Marcy: @Rebecca : I've done things that come close
Jennifer: cypherpunks have a manifesto
Marcy: On same URL?
Rebecca: It's funny. One of my new year's resolutions was to write a manifesto... just never got around to it
Joe: @Monica, maybe you can be the one
Joe: @Rebecca: now you can :)
Nate: @Rebecca: in my opinion, i think this could be a statement of what we are trying to do with our collaborative learning in this structure.
Rebecca: Yes, so how does an online open access course fit within the CSCL framework?
Jennifer: crypto anarchist manifesto at
Monica: nice!
Nate: Was booted... now back.
Rebecca: Back
Jennifer: me too
Jennifer: okay new idea
Jennifer: make a permanent space online
Jennifer: a community CSCL space
Jennifer: for learning about cscl
Monica: @Joe - i'd be willing
Jennifer: after the 8 week course is over
Joe: @Monica: OK, good, thanks
Marcy: Manifestos have certain key features: context, why context presents problems and opportunities; animating values, including the "value proposition"
Joe: let's chat about that during the week
Joe: @Jennifer: yes, good idea
Jennifer: how about an online CSCL learning community?
Marcy: @Jennifer: I think that's a great idea! That way, we're continuing to evolve, and refine our collective thinking, as applied to practice
Jennifer: we could be the founding memebrs
Joe: I think the intro to CSCL course could become that
Joe: so, we leave it with some improvements
Jennifer: i think we need a permanant space
Jennifer: ot a course
Joe: that make it sustainable
Jennifer: oops not a course
Marcy: Yes, and we could use the online platform as a "commons", in which we could break out subgroups, according to interest area...
Monica: @Joe sounds good
Joe: yah, the P2PU idea now is to make "study groups"
Joe: which can have any duration
Joe: of course, if the software doesn't really support that, we should send bug reports
Jennifer: really? this idea is already in p2pu?
Joe: yep
Marcy: @Joe: yes, and at a meta level, that's what will confront others seeking to replicate in another space, with other tools
Monica: is anyone using it this way?
Jennifer: so the goal is to move out of courses and into permanent spaces for learning?
Monica: ie - an ongoing community
Joe: I think the Help Desk and Shaping P2PU are examples
Joe: @Jennifer I think they want to support both
Jennifer: so would we want to do this within the p2pu structure or make our own?
Rebecca: Are we thinking like a group blog?
Marcy: An ongoing community works for me--but we could structure it according to learnign objectives that we share
Joe: or wiki
Jennifer: a group website for sure
Jennifer: with threaded discussion
Jennifer: anyone can post an article
Rebecca: Wiki works.
Monica: P2P could be the 'hub'
Marcy: But structured in some fashion, so it's not free for all--or at least one part of it's structured. We could have a bulletin board or "critics corner" or something that's structured differently.
Rebecca: Right, anyone could post. I'm thinking we need a schedule. Like we'd each have to post once every six weeks
Joe: P2PU sorta has combination of both wiki (tasks) and threaded discussion
Rebecca: A formal blog post i mean
Marcy: @Rebecca: yes, something like that.
Joe: @Rebecca: interesting idea
Rebecca: We could of course contribute more frequently.
Rebecca: But if we don't structure it, it is in danger of becoming a tumbleweed...
Marcy: We'd each have a responsibility to contribute something--even if it wasn't text-based.
Rebecca: I like the non text based approach!
Jennifer: kind of like slashdot
Rebecca: We could set a list of tasks and we could sign up for the ones we want to do
Joe: @Jennifer: nice comparison
Monica: slashdot?
Marcy: Well, it works for some, but not everyone. I'm really interested in Henry Jenkins' notions of transmedia...
Joe: I think the manifesto could be the primary outcome of this course
Marcy: Holy-moly, what's Slashdot? I love learning about all these cool platforms!
Joe: and any subsequent thing, like a wiki or group blog, could be set up too
Joe: Slashdot: "News for nerds"
Joe: they've been around for a while :)
Joe: a nice example of a community-moderated resource
Marcy: But is that a separate platform, or what? How is it set up?
Joe: it's a platform, yes
Monica: i think this is a manageable goal ... we could continue refining the manifesto, thinking about what our ongoing community will look like
Jennifer: okay slashdot is a website for computer geeks
Jennifer: but very well set up
Joe: and science geeks@@
Jennifer: over 10 years online I think
Jennifer: huge community
Joe: yeah
Jennifer: very stable
Marcy: That's something I'd like to know more about. I could see myself setting something like that up, run off my Post platform (which we're moving to Drupal), for the sustainability community
Jennifer: yes science geeks
Jennifer: like us :)
Joe: true
Marcy: Very cool! I'll ask Josh about it, I'm sure he's familiar with it.
Jennifer: hey drupal sounds cool
Joe: platform: I don't know if we need to set up anything formal...
Joe: I mean, maybe
Joe: I'm not opposed to it either
Rebecca: Is this community interested organizing itself around open education or the field of CSCL?
Marcy: I'm totally a learner on Drupal and most of this stuff; Josh is my Jedi guide.
Joe: but we'd need a rationale for any choice
Joe: does the world need more websites?
Joe: maybe it needs LOTs more
Joe: I don't know!
Jennifer: does the world have a dedicated cscl site now?
Monica: @Rebecca - it's funny that there is not more of a bridge between the two
Joe: p2pu?
Monica: this course was meant to move in that direction
Joe: wikiversity?
Jennifer: sorry I mean studying cscl as a topic
Nate: @Jennifer: some have tried to create one - cscl community
Joe: hm
Marcy: It's not that the world needs more websites, the world needs more examples of self-organized groups that tackle real issues affecting large groups of people who are expected to perform their jobs differently and can't afford to pay high prices for questionable returns on their investment....
Monica: there are many people working in CSCL that don't really know what is going on in the OPen Ed world
Marcy: @Monica: that's exactly right: that's what I was saying earlier.
Marcy: Or they're using terms like "open ed" or "open this" or "open that" but they're really establishing commercial platforms
Jennifer: just has a look at nate's link
Monica: right.
Joe: ha ha
Nate: @Monica: Stian mentioned that in his intro video - there is certainly plenty of room to get the communities better acquainted
Joe: that's my fav
Jennifer: looks like stahl set this up?
Monica: exactly
Jennifer: not much activity
Rebecca: I see - bridging the two.
Joe: I think this is good to do
Joe: but I can see it as more of a "consortium" than a website per se
Joe: maybe?
Joe: I guess I'm not sure :)
Nate: Dunno if it requires building a new platform to bring them together... It might be more productive to do some work trying to find where some of the main CSCl folks already hang out online, if they do.
Jennifer: good idea nate
Jennifer: we don't want to reinvent the wheel
Jennifer: but it would have to be an ACTIVE place
Joe: in one of the P2PU courses, we had "Special Guests"
Rebecca: Good point. Maybe this should be a starting point. Seeing what is already out there.
Jennifer: posting articles, discussion of articles
Joe: that could work
Jennifer: generative type stuff
Marcy: That''s a good idea: it's called "market research" in my world: e.g., where's current activity taking place, and where are the gaps
Jennifer: cool marcy
Monica: task for this coming week?
Jennifer: do a market research survey
Jennifer: before implementation
Marcy: Where are people hanging out? Where COULD they be hanging out. The gap between "now" and "future" is the entrepreneurial sweet spot, the opportunity gap
Jennifer: @monica great idea!
Joe: I added a "Part 3: goals"
Joe: because the actions we do should accomplish something
Jennifer: yes, task to find out where the cscl dudes hang out
Jennifer: and whtether what they are already doing is worth joining
Jennifer: or if we should make our own
Marcy: We could have a page where we upload all we've identified re: the hangouts. (My visual is, where are the Food Courts?"
Joe: we might not know what the goals are until we know what the gaps are
Rebecca: Good task for the week - what are the links between CSCL and open education
Jennifer: dudes includes dudettes of course
Joe: and food courts including volleyball courts
Marcy: LOL.
Marcy: Yep.
Monica: great ... so we have some focus for the coming week!
Marcy: Food for thought. And games going on.
Jennifer: i have to go
Jennifer: my kids want breakfast
Rebecca: Bye Jennifer!
Marcy: Can we create a group page to post this during the week?
Marcy: Bye, Jennifer!
Monica: do you guys want it on the P2P course page or on a piratepad
Joe: @Marcy: you can keep updating here?
Monica: bye jennifer!!
Joe: but we could set up a P2PU page to post summaries or questions, i.e. discussions about this page
Marcy: I think so--or we could create another page?
Rebecca: I just pasted in an outline for manifesto writing on this pad. I found it at
Joe: P2PU discussions are useful because it pushes into email
Monica: right.
Marcy: For our brainstorming, during the week. Where we've found links to food courts and volleyball courts... :D
Joe: @Rebecca: good
Rebecca: I agree Joe. Sometimes I forget to check this pirate pad
Joe: but if we post summaries or questions about it, that will work as a reminder
Monica: okay i'll set up a page
Marcy: Have you guys used OpenAtrium? Josh has us using this on a few projects... It has a Shout! function that alerts people to when stuff has been added, and has all kinds of functionalities
Nate: Among many visions of the reform of education in a connected world, we have chosen to learn collaboratively, peer-organized and free. We believe that great learning can occur in groups on free, open, and self-organizing online spaces. We reject the notion that an education must be bought and sold. We believe that all may be teachers, and all may be learners, and we claim the right to accredit ourselves and each other on our own learning. We need no authority to decide what we should and shouldn't learn. We believe we can collaboratively learn from one another and the cultural commons and acknowledge each other's learning so that we do not need to pay thousands of dollars to get an education that should be respected in the marketplace. We believe we can use the experiences, technologies and talents available to each of us to create valuable resources together that can be made openly available to the world. To this end, We jointly accredit one another's learning as documented through our participation in the Intro to Computer-Supported Collaborative Learning course on the Peer to Peer University in 2011. We provide reference for one another to verify our collaborative learning and assert its value independent of any commercial or institutional authority. We announce our intentions and methods so that others may follow and claim their own right to learning.
Nate: That doesn't look right in chat.... condensed some of what we had written. Here' I'll paste it over into the main doc near the end for a sec.
Marcy: Yeah, looks better in main doc. Plus, when you post it in chat, I end up being blown out of my chair...
Rebecca: Wow Nate!!! Impressive
Monica: lol
Monica: that's great thanks Nate
Marcy: It does look really good. I can hear the band playing in the background... :)
Marcy: I gotta go, folks--this has been really neat, thank you all so much!
Rebecca: Bye Marcy! I gotta go too. Nice chatting with you all.
Monica: thanks for your input and participation marcy, this meeting has been our best yet i think
Marcy: Well, we all rock, that's why!
Monica: ciao folks - i'll set up our page on P2PU for now and we can keep wroking here on the manifesto
Nate: :) ok, gotta make a phone call. this has been nice.
Marcy: Be safe, everyone--til next time!
Nate: Look forward to a chat-transcript analysis (at least of a portion) in infographic sometime next week.
Joe: 'night everyone